They may be the biggest hard rock band in the world

Interview By Michael Goldberg

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ATN: This album cover. You've got... I t's squigglies and claret! Or sex and violence! Whichever!
Kirk Hammett: Squigglies and claret.
ATN: You've got sperm and blood.

Hammett: So do you.
ATN: You've got sex and violence.
James Hetfield: Oh my god!
Hammett: Wow! That's a good interpretation.
ATN When I looked at it, I thought you were having an in joke on how the media treats...
Hetfield: Sex and violence...which is what though?
Hammett: Exactly. Let me tell you that cover is all part of the concept of no real concept but of everything being opened up to interpretation and your own interpretation. It's just like James' lyrics. That cover can mean just about anything. Even if you don't know what it actually is, it's interesting to hear how people interpret that image. Like that's a new one on me...sex and violence. That's pretty good.
Hetfield: It's not new to us but... [laughs]
Hammett: Yeah. It's something we know quite a bit about. I don't know. I don't really want to get into exploring the deeper meaning of that image only because I don't want people to hear it and get a mindset on it and always see what I get out of that image. I'd rather just explain that it's semen and blood and it's by this guy named Andres Serrano [the 1990 photo of Serrano's semen mixed with bovine blood is titled "Semen and Blood lll"] and I think it's a really beautiful abstract image that is open to a lot of interpretation and metaphor.
ATN: It's very basic. It seems like it works very well as a visual to go with the music.
Hammett: Yeah, I think so. The whole packaging itself is not so cut and dry as a lot of album packages are these days. There's a lot of different stuff that can mean just about anything you want it to mean. Well, not anything but it's very wide.

Hetfield: It's strong.
Hammett: I think that speaks much more than just having a cut and dry image. A picture of the band on the cover, a picture of the band playing live inside and there you have it. This one...it speaks a lot more, I think.
Hetfield: Yep. I think all of our album packagings or whatever you call them, covers and pictures and whatnot have all been really strong and this is the same except it's not so direct or it's not so obvious. Most of the stuff had big image, big kind of...here's what we mean now. Here's where our minds are at at this time. And this one -- where our minds are at is: think for yourself. It's more, you tell me what it's all about. So, in that way, it's even more intense because you have to think even more.
Hammett: It's definitely challenging and that's what makes it strong. It challenges the viewer to think rather than stare at an image like someone stares at television. It challenges you to think what it means and how you relate to it.
ATN: You have a pirate flag up here in the rehearsal studio. You started out putting out an indie album way back when.
Hammett: We were an indie band way before it was hip.
ATN: It's always been "we do it our way." Kind of a rebel stance. I wonder if at this point in your lives you still feel like rebels, or can you feel like rebels given that you're now wealthy rock stars.
Hetfield: [laughs] Fuck you, by the way.
Hammett: Yeah, up yours, buddy.
Hetfield: Sure. There's so much crap going on now about haircuts and playing Lollapalooza and all this stuff we're not supposed to do. Is that rebel or what? It's not on purpose though, that's the thing. [laughs loudly]...and if you have a problem with that, fuck you.
Hammett: Just because you have a nice house doesn't automatically cure your feelings and cure your anger and cure your disrespect for authority or anything else.
Hetfield: You can buy more of it.
Hammett: It still doesn't cure being pissed off at seeing things that you don't agree with around you. It just ensures that you can go in there and be pissed off in a big house, that's all it really does. Money isn't a cure-all for anything. It might buy you more distractions but it's not all it's cut out to be.
ATN: When you guys were kids, did you have fantasies about being rock stars? Did you have ideas of what it would be like if you could be Keith Richards or somebody?
Hammett: I think I was more preoccupied with wondering if I was going to stay a virgin all my life or not. [They both laugh.] I didn't really fantasize about being a rock star. I fantasized about being the person itself. Like I wanted to be Ace Frehley. I wanted to be Jimi Hendrix. That's where my head was at when I first started playing guitar. Then gradually I thought maybe it'd be cool if I could make this into a profession and make a living out of it. But I don't think any of us expected it to be this big. This is really crazy. You can never predict something like this. We didn't expect this to happen.
Hetfield: There were all kinds of posters on my wall... Nugent and Aerosmith and Kiss and whatnot. It's like, "Wow. How did they get to be on my wall? Why can't I do that? I want to do that. They don't have to work. They don't have to go down to the factory."
Hammett: They don't have to work at Burger King. A job where you don't have to cut your hair...it's like a dream...
Hetfield: "They don't have to work. They don't have to go look for a job." Those were probably the main things for me, you know. I didn't want to work at Burger King. I didn't want to go down find some job and get my hair cut and all this crap. I wanted to do what I wanted to do. And that was it. I had to do a little of both until it came to the point where "I don't have to work anymore because the band is going on tour and we'll sponge off the road for awhile." Mainly not working at a regular job was the main thing for me. And being on a poster. [laughs]

Hammett: He just wanted to be on someone else's wall, that's what it was.
ATN: I'm wondering how the reality of things is different from what people kind of imagine being in your position is like.
Hetfield: Without getting all whiny about it, there's a lot of work. And there's a lot of time spent in Metallica and [the] Metallica mindset. First of all, Metallica is burnt into the brain. You can't escape it. The light won't go off.
Hammett: It's a lifestyle. Rock and Roll. It's a lifestyle choice.
Hetfield: It's impossible to turn it off no matter where. If I'm off hunting in the middle of no damn where, still it's there. And I don't want it to be there but it is, which is great. You're part of a family that is important to you and obviously it can't go away. But a lot of time is spent on Metallica. And that doesn't give you a lot of time for personal things or getting other lifestyle...like getting your house together, getting a home and homelife together is pretty difficult. That's where I think sometimes it suffers. Being torn between two things sometimes. But this is family. Being on the road is great fun. There's a lot of hard work to be done as well. It's just all about extremes.
Hammett: It's definitely not as glamorous as a lot of people want it to be. Especially at this point right now, 'cause we've just put out an album. Our day consists of interviews, photo sessions, rehearsals. Sometimes seven days a week. And you have to understand that before that, we were in the studio pretty much everyday, seven days a week at certain points in time of the recording. You go through huge personal sacrifices just to maintain that Metallica vision that you have. It's just like what
James was saying. It's burnt into our brains so heavily that you can't really get away from it. You just accept it as a lifestyle that you have. The great thing about it is the relationship that we all have nurtures that, supports that so we don't freak out and want to run away from it. I came to the conclusion a couple of years ago that Metallica is the longest relationship I've ever had in my life outside my family. Because I've had other personal relationships that have fallen apart.
Hetfield: We don't know anything else really.
Hammett: I think to the day I die, every single day I'll be thinking about Metallica and the other three guys in Metallica. It's a
lifestyle. What can I say?
Hetfield: We don't know anything else. We grew up with it. This is our life.
Hammett: We pretty much grew up in public. We started when we were like 19, 20 years old. And our whole adult life was spent living, eating, shitting, breathing Metallica.Metallica: motivated by love.
Hetfield: All the whatever -- the interviews, the this, the that -- it's something that we do because we care. It's not something we have to do. Sure, we don't have to do any of that crap. But it's because we give a shit so much that's why we do it.
Hammett: Because there's a really strong love for it and the need to do it. There's a lot to motivate us and to keep us pushing through. Because sometimes it gets really hard to deal with. I'll admit it. I was just thinking I just realized today that in the last week I've averaged about two hours to myself a day, if that. But there is a love for it thatkeeps you going, you know.
ATN: You guys are about to embark on a year-long tour, right?
Hammett: Yeah. But that's a drop in the bucket compared to last time [Metallica was on the road for two years following the release of the "black album."]
ATN: Do you see yourselves wanting to keep doing that as the years go on?
Hammett: I definitely think that we'll always be recording and touring. But there'll be a time when it will be physically impossible for us to do long tours because of health, family, whatever. You have to draw the line somewhere. Old age? I don't know.

Hetfield: We tour because it's fun and because that's what we know and that's what we do best, I think. Length of the tour...who knows? Two years was too long. And we found out. But the only way we found out was because we did it. We have to push ourselves as far as we can and we do that a lot.
Hammett: We're pragmatists when it comes to Metallica matters.
Hetfield: It's difficult now because we're trying to shorten things up, getting records out sooner and things like that. Like the
difficulty of trying to get the set together because of all these songs. Again, we have all these places we want to play. How do you shorten the tour? We said we'd be back there and we keep our word, so we go back.But we want to play somewhere else new. We want to reach out. It's going to be really difficult to get the tour a little leaner and meaner. All's I have to say is people are going to have to travel a little more to see the band. But I'm sure they won't mind. Throw a few extra beers in the
trunk, you know. Before they went under the scissors.
ATN: Ten, 13, 14 years from now...?
Hetfield: I have no idea what the hell we'll be doing then.
Hammett: My psychic powers are waning at this moment. I can't see that far into the future. It's hard to say what we're going to be doing in 10 years. It's even difficult to say what we're going to be doing in five years.
Hetfield: We'll be pushing ourselves to the limit like we always have and do. That's what we'll be doing. Whatever that limit will be, who knows? Our bodies will tell us at that time.
ATN: But it sounds like you see this as a lifelong thing.
Hetfield: It's all I know, man. I don't like thinking otherwise, really. I know sometimes reality checks come in. What if this wasn't around? What would you be doing? It freaks me out because I don't know and I don't really want to know. Because I want all my focus in here.
ATN: You mentioned a Metallica mindset earlier. What is that?
Hetfield: Who said that?
Hammett: I said that. Everything. Everything that has to do with Metallica and making things the best that it possibly can be. Any sort of format, whether it be recording, touring, t-shirts, the performance. The Metallica mindset is just to do the best that you can possibly do. And like James was saying, just push it, push yourself so you can give that 2000when everyone expects you to only put in 100
ATN: Do you guys feel in competition at all with other bands? Like yesterday, you [Hammett] were saying it'd be cool if this album sold more copies in the first week than Pearl Jam.
Hammett: That wasn't me. I didn't say that.
ATN: Just someone who looked like you.
Hammett: I was just curious to know what the most any one band sold when their initial album came out. Someone said Pearl Jam's Vs.. I said, OK. There was no real competition because things like that don't really fucking matter. It might look good on paper. You might be able to soak it for a week for publicity. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I was just curious, that's all. Competition is good. You wanna piece of me?
Hetfield: Competition is good. It's bred, especially in America, from day one. When you're growing up, this team wants to be better than this team. Little league or whatever it may be. It's a way of getting better. When you see someone on your coattails, you get off your ass and keep going. So competition is good but there's not really any specific bands or any goals that we have to do better than. I think we're our own worst enemies in that way where we've got to better ourselves. So there's competition within ourselves. Looking at each other and saying, I know he can play better. Even some of the rhythm stuff, Kirk is playing some of this cooler, looser stuff. Wow, hmm, maybe I could do that. Kind of looking at each other, thinking, I can do better.

Hammett: We don't feel the need to compete with bands 'cause we're better than everyone. [laughs] Just kidding. Actually I'm not. Yes, I am. Am I?HELL NO! WE WON'T COMPUTE! OH...
ATN: People think of you guys as having this real strong, anti-PC stance. You had this banner up at the San Jose show...
Hetfield: Personal computer? PC?
ATN: Meaning anti-political correctness.
Hetfield: Oh. Anti-pizza. [laughs] I like pizza.
ATN: You had this big sign up that said: "Alcoholics, to live is to drink. World unconsciousness tour." Anti-vegetarian stickers.
Hammett: I'm a vegetarian. What're you talking about?
ATN: You are?
Hammett: Yeah. I have a problem with PC thinking because what it does is it doesn't really confront the actual issue. It just kind of skirts it along so that no one gets insulted for the moment. And it's just a very polite way of saying maybe we should sweep it under the carpet rather than getting to the nuts and bolts of the situation and really talking about it. I think that there's a certain sort of thinking that people have. But PC thinking is just politeness. It's not reallycorrect. Go ahead and stretch if you want. Don't let the PC police stop you.
ATN: What I see is a lot of people mindlessly going along a particular train of thought almost because it's cool or something. And not really even knowing the situation. In San Francisco a lot of times, that's particularly the case.
Hammett: I think political correctness is a form of doublespeak. It was created by someone so that people don't have to get together and confront issues or talk about topics that are sensitive. I think it's all bullshit, if you ask me.
Hetfield: Yes. I'm PC. [laughs]
Hammett: Personal computers? Or personally competent?
Hetfield: Paul Coleman is my name now. PC. People, think for yourself. That's all I have to say about that. And people should be able to say what they fucking want to.
ATN: What's the story with that banner?
Hammett: That was a banner that someone gave us. And it said "Alcoholica" not "alcoholics." That's just a nickname for our band. Can you feel the love?
Hetfield: Some fan threw it on stage and we kept it. We've got billions of banners. That was just one that got held on to and it just got thrown up there. We needed something behind us in the trailer, so that was there.
ATN: How much of a sense of humor is there in some of what you guys do?
Hetfield: It's all humor, man.
Hammett: We need a sense of humor, you know. Because if you take yourself too seriously, you're not flexible and it stops being fun. We're very, very good at taking a step back and laughing at ourselves and
laughing at each other. And when someone takes themselves too seriously, they become a target for sarcasm and insults. It's really important in this band to have a sense of humor because a lot of what we do is very serious sometimes. And we need that humor just to loosen things up. And a lot of people see us as very serious too. You just sometimes have to show people that you just really don't give a fuck.Serious, but with good humor.
Hetfield: Right. I think we're pretty serious when it comes to writing songs. That's when the real serious part happens. What comes afterwards, lyrically or when we play live, there's serious, serious humor. [laughs] We're seriously humorous. And there's looseness to it all. There's both. You've got to have both or else you kill yourself.
ATN: What's an example of something where it works on both levels?
Hetfield: Sitting here trying to relearn "Nothing Else Matters." It's such a sensitive song for myself. Oh, I've got to sit here and play this thing right. You start to get wound up. You can't remember the song but you don't want to tell people you've forgotten it. Then someone makes a joke. Yeah, I'm messing up. Humor breaks a lot of ice for us on stage, in rehearsals, interviews, anywhere. It helps us along.
Hammett: Something that we've been laughing about lately is our single, "Until It Sleeps," someone put on the Internet "Until It Puts Me To Sleep." [laughs] I just love that. I think that's the funniest thing in the world. That's just another form of us not taking ourselves too seriously. There might be some bands who might see that and get really offended and pissed off. But us, we just laugh at it and it becomes a running joke with us. That's how lighthearted we are with certain matters. Have fun and you stay healthy. It's scientifically proven!
Hetfield: Yeah, when people mean things and they want it to hurt you and you find it funny, that's the worst thing that could happen to them. You know. [laughs]
Hammett: Exactly.
Hetfield: People mean a lot of mean things towards us and when we either agree or laugh and say, "Wow, that's too bad you think that way" and move on... They really want things to hurt you and it's hard to let them hurt you if you have a sense of humor about it.
ATN: When I told somebody I was going to come interview you guys, one person's comment was, "Those guys are scary."
Hetfield: [laughs] So what else does your mom think?
ATN: I just wondered what you thought about that, the fact that among some people they think of Metallica....
Hammett: That's the basic heavy metal stereotype. That we're a bunch of ogres who are drunk all the time and beat up little old ladies. It's really, really dumb. Scary? These guys? Nahhh...
Hetfield: We'll take on the big ones now. Big old ladies.
Hammett: Big old ladies. And we're not drunk, we're stoned. No, just kidding. But yeah, it's a stupid stereotype and it might be true for other bands, sorry to say, but it definitely isn't the case with us. We're definitely four personalities who are interested in a lot of different things, who can think for themselves and are intelligent. We're just a bunch of nice guys really.
Hetfield: Hey, I'm scary. Don't let him fool you. Very. I like being scary.

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